mastodon.gamedev.place is one of the many independent Mastodon servers you can use to participate in the fediverse.
Mastodon server focused on game development and related topics.

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@mekkaokereke @james the fact that I've wanted a way to subscribe to blocklists on Mastodon as a kind of "web of trust" feature that would be EASIEST to do with ActivityPub since

y'know

publishing payloads is KIND OF THE THING

and BlueSky just like does that from the jump...

It's baffling to me. That Mastodon has resisted this kind of idea for this long, I mean.

@root @mekkaokereke @james Bluesky has been a joy to use these last few days. Mastodon better do something soon

@serapath @bbmin7b5 @root @mekkaokereke @james

"we should educate people" is doomed from the start. People don't need to use Mastodon for their job or to get government services. They are on socials for fun--they aren't going to take a class to learn how to make it work for them! Either it's easy and fun or it isn't.

"must show commitment to federation by putting up with broken shit" could be a valid entry requirement to keep out the shallow riff-raff if you want a more exclusive club. But you can't at the same time complain people would rather go somewhere else.

𝓼𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓹𝓪𝓽𝓱【ツ】☮(📍🇬🇧)

@dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @mekkaokereke @james

fair enough.

now the thing is, many people are ...something

naive?broken?privileged?... you name it.

The "mainstream" loves "pop music" even though the industry is abusive and all the people supporting it without knowing.
You could say the same about capitalism.

Now the thing is, at least those who learn more should lead by good example to be connected to their peers in better ways and keep doors open for others to join.

@dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @mekkaokereke @james

it's always the early adopters who see a vision who do it first and when everyone that made the old/previous place worth being there has left to the new place, those same uninspired that only go anywhere when it's FUN ...will follow, because they then recognize the FUN is in the new place.

People who only operate on the level of "fun" will definitely not ever be early adopters - they just dont understand much what things are about in this context

@serapath @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

Serapath, you've understood zero of what I posted and are without irony, doing exactly what I said in my original reply:
* You're not talking at all about how to make Mastodon better
* You're making unsupported claims about what the motivations of people that chose BlueSky are, based on your biased assumptions about what motivated them.

For example, you're going off about BlueSky marketing budget, when their user spikes are not based on marketing.
1/N

@serapath @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

You're making unsupported claims about people who like fun are never early adopters. What? That's so silly I don't even know how to start to address it.

Your making silly claims about people who like pop music. Like, what?

You lack empathy, and you don't even pretend to listen to why people make the choices that they do, so you have no hope of understanding it. I'm not going to try to persuade you to listen to people, or to improve Mastodon.

2/N

@serapath @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

I'll leave you to your fundamental attribution error:

BlueSky users are bad. Because they only seek fun. Got it. Unlike you: the good, unfun, noble Mastodon user! Saving the world, one federated post at a time!

(In a shocking twist, the world can only be saved in a place that is hostile to Black people. Who knew!)

3/3

@mekkaokereke @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

Not what i said.
Bluesky is bad.
Bluesky users who are into people controlling their own data and means of communication with each other probably are just victims of bluesky influencer marketing or they might actually not care - hard to say - they would know best.

But everyone who does care should definitely avoid bluesky.

Mastodon isnt perfect - i'm not even a big fan, but it is more decentralized.
would be even better.

@mekkaokereke @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

My personal recommendation would be to advocate true peer to peer and subjective moderation (see: cblgh.org/trustnet/)

Like cabal.chat

It dissolves all hostile places, because true peer to peer makes it a true people network and not a place anymore

cblgh.orgtrustnet — alexander cobleigh / cblgh.orgmaster's thesis research into subjective, trust-based moderation systems

@serapath @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

"Mastodon is better" Okay, now I know you don't talk to any Black people.

Sorry, but I can't be your first one.

I'm disengaging.

Be well!

@mekkaokereke @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

Mastodon is more decentralized.
Bluesky is a VC controlled place.

I am not a huge fan of fediverse or mastodon, but bluesky is less decentralized.

Be well too.
I think we just had too many misunderstandings... hmm sad.

@mekkaokereke @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

I'm just sharin my opinion/observation.

I'm open to hear how you would approach improving the situation?

I can only see the most progressive discussing to figure out whats best or better, then adopting it and spreading the word.

@serapath @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

No, you're not sharing your "observations." Because you haven't even bothered to observe. You're sharing your biases and preconceived notions about people you view as inferior to you.

Take a few moments to read the conversations about the lack of starter packs and shared blocklists on Mastodon, and why those are so important for community. Observe. Empathize.

Then read that the Mastodon team *is* building these features, but going is slow. Funding...

@mekkaokereke @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

I am making statements about bluesky.
You are making statements about me.

biases, preconceived notions ...and argue about superiority and inferiority.

If you like hiking, you might prefer a national park over a crowded city... so in the context of hiking, hikers might say cities are inferior to crowded cities.

People have other reasons for choosing cities.

I said stuff about bluesky, not people.

@serapath @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

🤔"many people are ...something naive?broken?privileged?... you name it."

🤔"People who only operate on the level of "fun" will definitely not ever be early adopters - they just dont understand much what things are about in this context"

This is you saying things about people.

In my thread about improving Mastodon and having empathy for why people choose BlueSky.

And yes, I said stuff about you. Specifically, that you without irony, did a Mastodon.

@mekkaokereke @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

Alright. Appreciate it.
I dont wanna fight.

Would not recommend bluesky nor do i really understand people opting for bluesky.

Agree mastodon is broken and should be improved. Prefer nostr and would love to see peer to peer and move beyond fediverse, but not towards bluesky (thats the opposite direction).

I feel ppl who follow tech should try to educate people who are mainly here for content and communication and dont know much about the tech

@mekkaokereke @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

...educating them about the tech and the pros/cons they might not be aware of, such as implicitly empowering VCs and billionaires when their intention is to get away from those, but they werent aware that bluesky is again just that.

Who - if not tech savy people - can share that information? ..that's it.

I myself am happy for people fighting the good fight and sharing the facts i might not know because it might be about a field i dont know much

@mekkaokereke @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

I agree that mastodon should have starter lists and blocklists and probably a lot of more features.

I personally would rather see more of cblgh.org/trustnet/ in general and true peer to peer.

I am on mastodon and like it because it is more decentralized than bluesky.

Sure - VC funded platforms will offer features users want to convince them over and get network effect (=lock in effect)

bluesky can always revert in the future. they control

cblgh.orgtrustnet — alexander cobleigh / cblgh.orgmaster's thesis research into subjective, trust-based moderation systems

@mekkaokereke @dveditz @bbmin7b5 @root @james

Pretty much based on marketing for sure.
Marketing comes in many forms.
These days its mostly convincing influencers and it is usually with false narratives - because otherwise they wouldnt be able to convince them.

How to make mastodon better?
I dont know.
Mastodon is broken.
Its more decentralied. Thats it.

But so is which is already far ahead.

Further ahead will only be possible with true peer to peer, which isnt ready for social nets

@serapath @mekkaokereke @bbmin7b5 @root @james

Oh boy, no-- Mastodon is not broken because it is decentralized!

Mekka's phrase "lack of empathy" is apt and has nothing to do with decentralization. That refers to both a cultural brokenness that drove whole communities away, but also lack of empathy toward users dealing with the long list of well-known user experience problems. They are all fixable, but that requires caring for the user and not just saying "all us old timers can put up with it so why can't you?"

@dveditz @mekkaokereke @bbmin7b5 @root @james

I agree with that.
Maybe it is because of european funding.
Maybe it is because it has german roots and what you describe is

ABSOLUTELY TYPICAL FOR GERMANY.

Germany is a service desert and that kind of attitude is a perfect example

I'd recomend to explore nostr. its more decentralized

Mastodon is young and so is nostr.
They are all improving rapidly.
Maybe mastodon is doomed - i'm not a fan of fediverse, but the better direction would be nostr

@serapath
The principled stand not to take VC money puts a speed limit on progress, but it's arguably as important as decentralization to the fediverse.

I'm unlikely to try nostr. I'm on Mastodon because I followed a community here; I'm on Bluesky because I followed people there; I stayed on Twitter longer than I wanted because of the people who stayed there. I don't know anyone on nostr

@dveditz

hmm, i dont think so.
Doing VCs is easy, just as a dictator is easy.
Will it produce the best results? ...very likely not and for many reasons.

A democracy is much more complex than a dictatorship and the more decentralized towards true peer to peer you wanna make it the harder it gets, but once you figured it out, it easily outcompetes everything else.

linux was invented without VCs
nodejs was created without VCs

modulecounts.com/
...if you go to ALL TIME, you can see

@dveditz
...you can see the largest open source ecosystem ever created by humankind and how it grew expontentially dwarfing every other ecosystem and stack by an order of magnitude.

Javascript is now everywhere and no company could have ever done this and no VC could have ever funded this.

The issue is, that open source wasnt sustainable, but everyone is aware and people try to tackle the issue from many sides - the productivity clearly dwarfs what is possible with VCs, ...

@dveditz

It is true, that the network effect, the inertia - basically exactly the phenomenon you describe is what VCs and big tech is after to exploit people down the line and create those social lock in effects, because coordination for everyone to switch at once is insanely hard and hence VCs have a save investment when they want to monetize the audience down the road.

Thats why it is important to try to not go into a trap but choose tech to avoid those disasters down the road

@dveditz

I made a starter list for nostr
mastodon.gamedev.place/@serapa

But still, it is tough.

Bluesky an others have the VCs to fund marketing and spread the word and try to lure people in.

Mastodon has the european union backing it which is quite a strong marketing message as well.

Peer to peer only has the peers. The people spreading it by word of mouth - to a large extend thats also true about nostr, so it is less known because nobody pushes it into the mainstream as strongly sadly.

@serapath

"fun" was a poor word choice on my part. But people are NOT on social media to "use the software". They might be deeply interested and knowledgeable about rocks, or beetles (or The Beatles), or space, and they want to talk with like-minded people. They'll go where they can find those people--the "network effect" is real. how the software works is not a top tier concern. In fact, if they have to think about the software that's a negative because it's getting in the way.

There is no point complaining about people going to Bluesky. If you're in the tiny minority with the skills to improve the fediverse software, do that instead. If you can help foster a welcoming culture here, do that.

@dveditz

Yes, i agree with that.

This is exactly what Musk and X leverages as well.

The network effect.
If most people with specific content are to be found on X only, then you have to be on X if you dont want to miss out.

Everyone ends up being there because everyone else is there with their content.

A nash equilibrium.
A prisoner dilemma.
A network effect.

Every cantillionaire tries to get to it, because it secures their dominance and usually means loads of money.

How to protect?