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4 posts3 participants0 posts today

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.ca/@JustinDerrick" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Justin Derrick</a> The question, however, is: What is "high-quality"? How is it defined? Would the bot go by the definition valid for commercial/scientific/technological websites and blogs, i.e. ideally no more than 125 characters, and only a short and concise visual description with no further information? Or would the bot go by Mastodon's culture and Mastodon's standards, i.e. the longer and more detailed, the better, any and all extra information is welcome in alt-text (because it doesn't fit into the toot), and the limit is 1,500 characters? That is, if it were for me, the bot would go look both for alt-texts and for image descriptions in the post text body and judge both. Because I do both at the same time for my original images. An extremely detailed long image description in the post itself (character limit for post and alt-texts combined here: over 16 million) that also comes with all necessary explanations and transcripts of all text in the image, plus an alt-text that's as detailed as 1,500 characters (minus notification about the long description in the post) allow, but with no explanations, and I usually have to leave out text transcripts as well because they're too many. You may say the alt-text is superfluous if it's just a much shorter version of the long description. But as long as the Mastodon HOA demands there be an alt-text to every image, no matter what (especially seeing as I always hide my image posts behind summaries/content warnings, so you can't see right of the bat that there's a long image description in the post), I add alt-texts to my original images. I'm actually curious about how the bot would judge my descriptions. Maybe it'd flag them "inadequate" because it notices that the bits of text in the image are not transcribed in the alt-text. Maybe it'd be irritated because I have headlines in my long image descriptions, because they're so long that they need two levels of headlines. Maybe it'd flag them "inadequate" because it goes strictly by WCAG, and a) the alt-texts exceed 200 characters, b) long image descriptions do not belong into the text body by any known official accessibility standards, and c) neither my alt-texts nor my long descriptions are limited to what's supposed to be important within the context of the post. Anyway, in the meantime, you can follow the account @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@alttexthalloffame" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alt Text Hall of Fame</a> and the hashtag #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextHallOfFame" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextHallOfFame</a>. CC: @<a href="https://mastodon.scot/@simon_brooke" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Simon Brooke</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonHOA" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonHOA</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://loma.ml/profile/z428eu" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Kristian</a> Wobei es da wohl auch haufenweise Karteileichen geben dürfte. Da werden alle Instanzen und Akteure gesammelt, die der Instanz schon mal über den Weg gelaufen sind, aber die inaktiven oder toten werden nie rausgeprunet. Man gucke sich mal die Liste der Communities auf einer (streams)-Instanz an, die schon lange genug läuft, vielleicht sogar früher schon als Zap oder Misty oder so. Da findet man auch schon mal Hubzilla 6 oder Hubzilla 5 oder Instanzen von Osada oder Zap oder so, wo die Versionsnummer schon klarstellt, daß die nie nach (streams) gecrossgradet worden sind (wo sie beim Crossgrade ja ihre alte Markenidentität behalten hätten, weil (streams) selbst ja keine hat). Und wenn man dann die Instanzen aufzurufen versucht, dann gibt's die schon seit Jahren nicht mehr. Aber selbst vor dem Hintergrund wirken die GTS-Zahlen unrealistisch. Da scheint eher die Nodeinfo von GTS völlig absurde Zahlen rauszutun. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://loma.ml/profile/z428eu" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Kristian</a> GoToSocial ist populär als Software für eine Privatinstanz. Recht simpel, ohne Herumgehampel mit Ruby on Rails, daher leichtwiegig, und wenn man sowieso immer eine Smartphone-App nutzt, ist es auch Wurscht, daß GTS kein grafisches Frontend hat. Aber so eine hohe Zahl? Hat fast jeder Dritte im Fediverse eine eigene GTS-Instanz? Denn von einer riesigen Leuchtturminstanz weiß ich nichts. Ein paar andere Sachen verwundern mich auch noch. <ul><li>27 Millionen Nutzer insgesamt?</li><li>/kbin hat immer noch acht Instanzen? Waren das nicht mal nur noch drei? Die Nutzerzahlen scheinen da sogar immer noch langsam zu steigen. Da kommen wohl Leute mit hoffnungslos veralteten Informationen auf dem Stand von 2023 dazu.</li><li>Write.as gilt als eigenes Projekt?</li><li>Iceshrimp ist kleiner sowohl als CherryPick als auch als Hubzilla? Ist das das große Warten auf Iceshrimp.NET, oder hat Sharkey seine Macken, die die vielen Features getrübt haben, abgelegt?</li><li>Wildebeest ist noch nicht tot? Ich weiß ja, daß das Repository noch existiert, aber...</li><li>Umgekehrt, Calckey wird nicht gelistet? Das hat doch noch Instanzen und Nutzer da drauf.</li><li>Und Forte kommt bei euch auch noch nicht vor?</li></ul> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://loma.ml/profile/z428eu" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Kristian</a> Dann kann es sein, daß Friendica mit DIDs nach FEP-ef61, wie (streams) sie verwendet, nicht umgehen kann und daher der Link da nicht funktioniert. Das hier wäre eigentlich die originale URL: <code>https://streams.elsmussols.net/.well-known/apgateway/did:⁠key:z6Mkf2dhUa65zBYCNVqs3AHyt8uPixauZ7bPzEJn15LJANsd/item/a1704e21-8736-4c1a-8214-dd9604f9cb3a</code> (nicht zum Kopieren geeignet; ich mußte einen Word Joiner einbauen, um Hubzilla daran zu hindern, ein Emoji einzusetzen) <a href="https://streams.elsmussols.net/item/a1704e21-8736-4c1a-8214-dd9604f9cb3a" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hier</a> mal ein vereinfachter Link ohne DID. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://tupambae.org/profile/utopiarte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">utopiArte</a> Das stimmt nur teilweise. Die Dopaminjunkies sind weitgehend zu Bluesky abgehauen, weil sie da mehr Follower haben. Und einige Mastodon-Nutzer wollen tatsächlich diskutieren. Aber: <ul><li>Twitter/𝕏 ist aufgrund seiner Struktur technisch für Diskussionen mit mehr als zwei Teilnehmern völlig ungeeignet.</li><li>Mastodon ist genauso ungeeignet, weil es die Funktionsweise von Twitter ohne Rücksicht auf Verluste nachäfft.</li><li>Die meisten Mastodon-Nutzer kennen nichts anderes als Twitter und Mastodon und halten Mastodon für die beste Diskussionsplattform ever. Die vermissen auch gar nichts, weil sie es eben nicht anders kennen.</li></ul> Und so hast du in Mastodon dann Threads, wo 20 Leute dasselbe antworten, ohne voneinander zu wissen. Oder mit Ästen, wo immer nur einer mit dem Threadstarter diskutiert, weil die anderen davon nichts merken, weil keiner weiß, wie und wo man sich einen Thread in ganzer Ausdehnung angucken kann, oder weil deren Apps das nicht können. Wenn dann doch mal mehr als zwei Leute diskutieren, erwähnen sie sich alle einen Wolf, um alle Beteiligten in der Diskussion zu halten. Und dann jammern sie, weil neben den ganzen Erwähnungen und der vom Vorgänger automatisch und unwissentlich übernommenen CW von ihren 500 Zeichen kaum mehr was übrig ist. Und trotzdem halten alle das für das Gelbe vom Ei, weil sie es nicht anders kennen. Also, mit Ausnahme der Nicht-Mastodon-Nutzer, die sich in den Thread verirren und vom Rumgehampel der Mastodon-Nutzer genervt sind. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@_9CL7T9k8cjnD_" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">-0--1-</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@iDGS" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">David G. Smith</a> Still, first of all, if I posted an image without an alt-text (which I'd never do), AltBot would have to assume full admin rights over <a href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">the Hubzilla channel that I'm currently commenting from</a> because that's the only way for another Fediverse actor to alter the source code of my posts. Altering the source code of the post is necessary because Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte neither have a dedicated alt-text field, nor are images file attachments there. Rather, images are embedded directly into the post, in-line, just the same way blogs handle images. And alt-text has to be woven into the image-embedding code in the post. Thus, the post itself has to be altered. So, assuming AltBot actually manages to circumvent the two most advanced permissions systems in the Fediverse, it would have to trace back an image that it perceives as a file attachment to where exactly the embedding code for that particular image is in the post. It would have to be able to both understand and write the specific flavour of BBcode used by Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte. It would have to, for example, take this piece of code... <pre><code>[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photos/jupiter_rowland/image/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295][zmg=800x533]https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photo/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295-2.jpg[/zmg][/zrl]</code></pre>...and edit it into this. <pre><code>[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photos/jupiter_rowland/image/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295][zmg=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/photo/b1e7bf9c-07d8-45b6-90bb-f43e27199295-2.jpg]Digital shaded rendering of the main building of the Universal Campus, a downloadable island location for 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator. The camera position is about three metres or ten feet above the ground. The camera is tilted slightly upward and rotated slightly to the left from the building's longitudinal axis. The futuristic building is over 200 metres long, stretching far into the distance, and its front is about 50 metres wide. Its structure is mostly textured to resemble brushed stainless steel, and almost everything in-between is grey tinted glass. The main entrance of the building in the middle of the front has two pairs of glass doors. They are surrounded by a massive complex geometrical structure, very roughly reminiscent of a vintage video game spacecraft with the front facing upward. Four huge cylindrical pillars carry the roof end, the outer two of which extend beyond it. All are tilted away from the landing area in front of the building and at the same time outward to the sides. The sides of the building are slightly tilted themselves. In the distance, a large geodesic dome rises from the building. There is a large circular area in front of the main entrance as well as several wide paths. They have light concrete textures, and they are lined with low walls with almost white concrete textures. Furthermore, various shrubs and trees decorate the scenery.[/zmg][/zrl]</code></pre> Not to mention that AltBot would require extensive detail niche knowledge about the topic covered by the image to be able to whip up the above alt-text in the first place. (By the way: The alt-text example is genuine. I've actually used it. And it's an extremely whittled-down version of the long image description of the same image in the post itself, a description which has to be the longest in the entire Fediverse.) Ideally, AltBot would do so without flagging the post as edited. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mstdn.social/@gmr_leon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Gmr Leon</a> The main obstacle is that Mastodon has little support for titles (except for using them to show Article-type objects instead of their full content; long story) whereas they're absolutely mandatory in the Threadiverse. If you want to start new thread, this is how you must always structure your posts. <pre><code>Title < --- blank line here --- > @mention (only one Lemmy/PieFed community or /kbin/Mbin magazine, otherwise only the first one will be recognised) < --- blank line here --- > Post text body</code></pre> Comments, on the other hand, don't need titles. Also, prepare for people on Lemmy being very irritated about hashtags. And people on Mastodon being very irritated about what your toot looks like. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Threadiverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Threadiverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Lemmy" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Lemmy</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%2Fkbin" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">/kbin</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mbin" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mbin</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=PieFed" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">PieFed</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediTips" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediTips</a>

Jupiter RowlandI'm daily-driving Hubzilla, and I have been doing so under various independent identities since it was still fairly new (second half of the 2010s). By default, Hubzilla doesn't look much different from what Friendica looked like in 2012 when Hubzilla started out as a Friendica fork named Red. However, very very recently, third-party themes have started emerging. The default UI, the Redbasic theme, is quite convoluted and can be confusing. That's because work done on it over the last 13 years was almost limited to slapping more UI elements to it somewhere. Configuration is split between the Settings page in the channel menu, cogwheel icons towards the left of the navbar on some pages and even a few (partially actually essential) settings exclusive to /settings/features, a page for which there is no link on the UI anywhere (unless you have the newbie links on). And configuration is important; using Hubzilla at default settings makes even less sense than using Friendica at default settings. On top of this, Hubzilla is highly modular, similarly to Friendica. There are dozens of "apps" which the hub admin can activate or deactivate for everyone, and in addition, some "apps" are on by default on new channels (if they're on for the whole hub), and some are off. This means that some optional features are activated by turning settings on whereas others are activated by "installing" an "app" as a user. On top of even this, one of the "apps" that are off by default is Pubcrawl, Hubzilla's ActivityPub connector. Hubzilla has to be the only Fediverse server application on which ActivityPub has to be activated manually. That's because Zot6 (Hubzilla's version of the Nomad protocol, formerly known as Zot) doesn't interact as smoothly with non-nomadic protocols as (streams)' more current version of Nomad. Back in 2015, Hubzilla was geared towards purely nomadic operation. Since then, the Fediverse has changed a lot (and not into the direction which was desired in conjunction with Hubzilla's development), but Hubzilla hasn't in this regard. And "installing" the ActivityPub "app" is only one of the things highly recommended to do before you even only post something or connect to someone. Even if you're used to Friendica, Hubzilla's learning curve can and probably will be staggering. That's because Hubzilla is even more complex than Friendica. It's Friendica with a content management system, a groupware server, a whole new concept of identity and the second-most powerful permissions system in the whole Fediverse. The first huge difference between Friendica and Hubzilla: On Friendica, like almost everywhere else in the Fediverse, your account/login is your identity. On Hubzilla, your identity is independent from your account/login. For starters, you can have multiple independent channels on one account where one channel corresponds to one Friendica account, only without its own login. You can switch back and forth between all channels on one account without logging out. Friendica, Mastodon and everything else that doesn't understand the Nomad protocol (i.e. everything that isn't Hubzilla or (streams)) understands Hubzilla's channels as separate accounts. This is not to be confused with Friendica's multiple profiles per account. Hubzilla has multiple profiles per channel, too, which can be assigned both to privacy groups (think "lists") and individual contacts. You can have multiple identities, with multiple profiles each if so desired, on one account. But you cannot only have multiple channels on one account on one hub. You can have the exact same channel on multiple hubs with one account each. This is called "nomadic identity", something that Bluesky claims to be working on pioneering, but that has actually been first implemented by Friendica's and Hubzilla's creator as early as 2012 as the ultimate safety net against unannounced server closure. Nomadic identity is basically a live, hot, near-real-time backup of an entire channel with almost everything on it ("almost" because the one thing that isn't mirrored is which apps you have installed on your channel) on another server instance. And it's bidirectional. You can actually log onto your clones and use them like the main instance, e.g. if the hub with the main instance is offline. Whatever you do there will be mirrored to your main instance and your other clones if you have more than one clone. And you can declare one of your clones the new main instance and thereby demote your previous main instance to clone status. Another difference is that permissions are everything on Hubzilla. Hubzilla has the second-most powerful permissions system in the Fediverse, only barely behind (streams) and Forte. Permissions are granted on three levels: for the whole hub, for individual contacts, per conversation. On a hub level, there are four so-called channel roles which define what the channel generally permits: Public (social networking with a lot of permissions granted right away), Personal (social networking with fewer permissions granted), Community forum (public group) and Custom (adjust all channel-level permissions yourself, one by one). You can grant permission for others to <ul><li>see your channel stream, i.e. what you've posted, including the entire conversations</li><li>send you their posts</li><li>see your default, public profile (all other profiles aren't public anyway because you have to assign them to privacy groups or individual contacts)</li><li>see your contacts</li><li>look onto your file server and see your images and other files (including when they're embedded in a post, comment or PM; this can be overridden with a special setting outside the channel role configuration that allows those to see images embedded in posts, comments or DMs who are also allowed to see the corresponding post/comment/DM)</li><li>upload files to your file server or change existing files on your file server</li><li>see the webpages on your channel (I'm not even kidding, you can optionally have static webpages on your channel; <a href="https://hubzilla.org" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">the official Hubzilla website itself</a> is a webpage on a Hubzilla channel)</li><li>see the pages in your wikis (I'm still not kidding, you can have multiple wikis with multiple pages each on your channel)</li><li>create and edit webpages</li><li>edit pages in your wikis</li><li>post directly to your wall (as in open your channel page in their browser, find a post editor on top of the channel stream and write a post there that goes directly to you)</li><li>like, dislike and/or comment on your posts (whether someone is allowed to comment on your comments depends on who is allowed to comment in the thread with your comment in it, and commenting on DMs is always allowed)</li><li>send you DMs</li><li>like or dislike any of your entire profiles or any element in any of your profiles</li><li>chat with you (if you have the Chat app installed; Hubzilla only)</li><li>use your channel as a channel source (most likely Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte only)</li><li>administer your channel (sounds scary, but makes sense if your channel is a forum because that's how you add extra moderators)</li></ul> You can grant these permissions to <ul><li>the general online public (only where this makes sense, of course, namely where this doesn't absolutely require a login anywhere in the Fediverse)</li><li>anyone in the Fediverse</li><li>anyone on Hubzilla (not sure if this extends to (streams))</li><li>anyone on the same hub as you (not sure how this behaves on cloned channels, i.e. whether only those on the same hub as your main instance are permitted or also those on the hubs where you keep your clones)</li><li>your connections (including connections pending approval; not sure if it includes those who request to connect to you, for whom you delete the request, and who then only follow you)</li><li>your approved connections</li><li>only those of your approved connections whom you specifically grant that permission by assigned contact role</li><li>only yourself</li></ul> The next level is permissions per contact. These are granted by so-called "contact roles" which contain the same permissions as the channel, but only with "yes" or "no" as the options because the contact role defines whether a contact is granted a specific permission or not. Permissions granted by the channel are automatically also granted by all contact roles and cannot be revoked, except on a channel level. Each contact is always assigned one contact role. Lastly, you can grant permissions on a content level. For example, a new post can be public or restricted to <ul><li>one of your privacy groups (again, think "lists"; these are an optional, off-by-default app, by the way)</li><li>those whom you have assigned one specific non-default profile to</li><li>one group/forum</li><li>any selection of individual contacts</li><li>only you yourself</li></ul> At least on servers that understand these permissions, all those who are permitted to see the post are also permitted to see all comments and comment themselves. That is, optionally (that's an off-by-default app again), you can disallow comments on specific posts altogether. For viewing files and folders in your file space, there are the permissions mentioned above which control who in general and which contacts specifically are permitted. In addition, you can define access permissions like those for posts to individual folders or files. All this ties in with OpenWebAuth, a single sign-on system developed for Zap, a now defunct fork (of a fork?) of Hubzilla, in 2018/2019 and backported to Hubzilla in 2019 or 2020. Friendica has client-side OpenWebAuth support, i.e. Friendica's logins are recognised by OpenWebAuth. Hubzilla has full support, i.e. not only are its logins recognised, but it recognises logins itself. Speaking of the file space: It can be connected via WebDAV. As if that isn't enough, Hubzilla has two calendar systems. One is Friendica's federated event calendar. One is a CalDAV calendar server that shares the same frontend. And, as another optional app, Hubzilla even offers a CardDAV addressbook server. As indicated above, Hubzilla has even more to offer: <ul><li>(optionally) articles, i.e. long-form, non-federating posts; this can be used for blogging without sending the posts themselves through the Fediverse; same viewing and commenting permissions per article as per post; can be formatted with Hubzilla's extended BBcode</li><li>(optionally) planning cards, basically articles with some extra features; can be formatted with Hubzilla's extended BBcode</li><li>(optionally) wikis, multiple ones per channel with multiple pages each; can be formatted with Hubzilla's extended BBcode or Markdown, but one markup language must be defined for the whole wiki; can be collaborated on</li><li>(optionall) static webpages; can be formatted with Hubzilla's extended BBcode, Markdown or plain HTML; can be collaborated on</li></ul> As for external federation, Hubzilla is second only to Friendica itself. It does not have Bluesky integration or a WordPress cross-poster, and OStatus support was removed years ago with the release of Hubzilla 6. How fast it is depends not so much on the software (Hubzilla requires fewer server resources per channel than Mastodon does per account, though) as it does on the underlying server (hardware, configuration, MySQL/MariaDB vs PostgreSQL etc.). Still, the Zot code from 2012 (and what evolved from it) seems to be more optimised than the DFRN code from 2010, so that Hubzilla may actually be quicker than even Friendica. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://swiss.social/@bsm" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">BSM (sw.s) 🇨🇭</a> Das Problem der Reichweite auf Mastodon, das ja auch vernünftigen themenbezogenen Diskussionen im Wege steht, hat eigentlich zwei Ebenen. Zum einen haben viele immer noch "Twitter im Kopf" und nutzen Mastodon wie Twitter. Das heißt, sie tröten einfach drauflos ohne Hashtags und ohne gar nix, weil sie zu sehr daran gewöhnt sind, daß irgendein obskurer Algorithmus ihre Tröts schon an die richtigen Adressaten liefert. Oder sie hoffen, daß irgendjemand zufällig in der lokalen oder gar in irgendeiner föderierten Timeline über ihre Tröts stolpert. Einige versuchen noch an Reichweite zu kommen, indem sie hunderten oder tausenden Leuten folgen in der Hoffnung, daß die ihnen zurückfolgen. Nebeneffekt ist, daß sie nur einen winzigen Bruchteil dessen, was ihnen in die Timelines gespült wird, lesen, weil es einfach viel zuviel wird, wenn man über 3000 Akteuren folgt ohne jegliche Filterung. Ein bißchen kann man das mit Hashtags beheben. Aber zum anderen ist auch Tröten mit Hashtags ein "Rufen in den Äther", dieses Mal in der Hoffnung, daß zeitnah die richtigen Leute zufällig nach den richtigen Hashtags suchen. Oder, wenn man schon ein bißchen mehr Ahnung von Mastodon hat, in der Hoffnung, daß genug Leute den Hashtags folgen, die man gesetzt hat. Die allerallermeisten Mastodon-Nutzer wissen aber noch nicht mal, daß man auf Mastodon auch Hashtags folgen kann, also macht das kaum einer. Noch dazu ist das Prinzip sowieso halb kaputt, weil es Leute gibt, die gewisse populäre Hashtags in alle Tröts einbauen, um ihre Reichweite zu erhöhen, auch wenn es in den Tröts gar nicht um das geht, wofür die Hashtags stehen. Leider ist aus der Sicht von Leuten, die nur Mastodon kennen, damit das Optimum schon erreicht. Für die einen ist es das Gelbe vom Ei, weil sie nichts besseres kennen und sich nichts besseres vorstellen können. Für die anderen taugt auch das nichts, und weil sie nichts anderes kennen, taugt das ganze Fediverse nichts. Zwei wichtige Dinge fehlen Mastodon. Das eine ist native Unterstützung für Gruppenakteure. Mastodon hat keine Gruppenfunktion. Im Grunde versteht Mastodon nicht mal, was ein Gruppenakteur ist, und kann daher auch nichts damit anfangen. Ganz zu schweigen davon, daß Mastodon keine eigenen Bedienelemente für Gruppen hat. Man kann an sich schon Gruppen im Fediverse beitreten, aber deren Handhabung ist alles andere als intuitiv, zumal Mastodon ja auch kein Titelfeld hat. Und weil es keine dedizierten Bedienelemente für Gruppen gibt, dürften mehr als 90% der Mastodon-Nutzer nicht mal wissen, daß es im Fediverse überhaupt Gruppen gibt, geschweige denn, daß Mastodon an sich mit denen mehr oder weniger interagieren kann. Das andere, und das ist eigentlich Voraussetzung für das vernünftige Funktionieren von Gruppen und Diskussionen in Gruppen, sind Konversationen. Auch wenn Mastodon-Fans das vehementestens bestreiten: Mastodon kann keine Konversationen. Mit "Konversationen können" meine ich zwei Dinge. Zum einen, immer und sofort den ganzen Thread anzuzeigen wie hier bei mir auf Hubzilla. Statt dessen bekommt man standardmäßig nur Einzelbeiträge und darf sich den ganzen Thread mühsam zusammensuchen. Zum anderen, allen Teilnehmern einer Konversation auf einen Schlag antworten zu können, ohne sie erwähnen zu müssen. Auch das ist anderswo im Fediverse schon lange der Standard. Unterm Strich werden in Mastodon vielfach Erwartungen gesteckt, die Mastodon gar nicht erfüllen kann, weil es als Twitter-Klon dafür gar nicht konzipiert ist. CC: @<a href="https://chaos.social/@iotnerd" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Lorenz Schirmer</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.de/@alex_w" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Alex</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NichtNurMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NichtNurMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Konversationen" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Konversationen</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Gruppen" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Gruppen</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@masterhajoda" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hajoda</a> Für Twitter-Flüchtlinge ist es natürlich "möglichst einfach", ihnen nur Mastodon zu zeigen und sie dann am besten auch noch nach mastodon.social zu railroaden, damit sie ein paar Monate brauchen, um zu begreifen, daß Mastodon keine einzelne Website ist, und noch länger, um zu begreifen, daß mit Mastodon auch noch andere Sachen verbunden sind. Aber selbst das birgt schon Risiken, die Mastodon-Nutzer bisher noch nie auch nur wahrgenommen haben, die aber allen anderen im Fediverse sehr sauer aufstoßen. Und wenn jetzt jemand von Facebook oder Instagram kommt, dann ist Mastodon für die nicht die einfachste Lösung. Die einfachste Lösung ist nicht immer die mit den wenigsten Features bzw. die, die am meisten "für Doofe" ist. Sondern das ist die, bei der der Umstieg am einfachsten ist. Leute von Instagram nach Mastodon zu holen, weil man selbst Mastodon "soooooo einfach" findet, ist kompletter Blödsinn. Dafür gibt's Pixelfed. Wer nur Mastodon kennt, wird Pixelfed "kompliziert" finden, weil es sich nicht wie Mastodon oder Twitter bedient. Aber wer von Instagram kommt, wird sich schnell zurechtfinden. Warum? Weil Pixelfed ein Instagram-Klon ist. Von vornherein gedacht als 1:1-Drop-in-Instagram-Ersatz. Pixelfed ist tausendmal dichter an Instagram dran als Mastodon. Noch dazu kann man Instagram-Konten nach Pixelfed importieren. Ähnlich ist das bei Facebook-Nutzern. Da ist man als jemand, für den das Fediverse im Grunde primär Mastodon ist, natürlich auch versucht, die nach Mastodon zu holen, weil man glaubt, das ist am einfachsten. Aber die erste Frage, die gestellt wird, wenn jemand von Facebook nach Mastodon gekommen ist: "Wo Gruppen"? Tja, Mastodon hat keine Gruppen. Mastodon weiß eigentlich gar nicht, was Gruppen sind. Mastodon kann auch keine vernünftigen Konversationen (nein, kann es wirklich nicht; wer das als Mastodon-Nutzer bestreitet, hat noch nie echte Konversationen im Fediverse gesehen), sondern nur Stückwerk aus Einzeltröts wie auf Twitter. Mastodon hat auch noch so ein lächerliches Zeichenlimit, das Facebook nicht hat. Und so weiter und so fort. Wer von Facebook nach Mastodon kommt, hat es tatsächlich sehr schwer. Warum? Weil das eine ganze Menge Umdenken bedeutet. Weil alles ganz anders funktioniert. Weil das Konzept ein ganz anderes ist. Das ist, wie von Facebook nach Twitter umzuziehen. Wer dagegen von Facebook auf das ach-so-komplizierte Friendica umzieht, wird sich schneller zurechtfinden. Warum? Weil Friendica vor 15 Jahren explizit als Facebook-Ersatz entwickelt wurde. Weil Friendica daher alles hat, was ein gut funktionierendes Social Network braucht. Weil Friendica keine lächerlichen Einschränkungen hat, die Twitter hat, die Mastodon hat, die Facebook aber auch nicht hat. Und weil Friendica sehr viel von dem hat, was Facebook-Nutzer brauchen, was Mastodon aber nicht hat. Gruppen zum Beispiel. Friendica ist tausendmal dichter an Facebook dran als Mastodon. Auch weil es konzeptionell dasselbe ist wie Facebook, Mastodon aber nicht. Mastodon ist eben nicht das "Schweizer Taschenmesser" des Fediverse, das alles kann und für jeden Nutzer und jeden Einsatzzweck paßt. CC: @<a href="https://hameln.social/@lotse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ralf</a> @<a href="https://moppels.bar/@crossgolf_rebel" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">crossgolf_rebel - kostenlose Kwalitätsposts</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NichtNurMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NichtNurMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Instagram" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Instagram</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=InstagramErsatz" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">InstagramErsatz</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Pixelfed" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Pixelfed</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Facebook" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Facebook</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FacebookErsatz" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FacebookErsatz</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.heise.de/@mho" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Martin Holland</a> <blockquote>Aber allein im chronologischen Feed verpasst man zu viel</blockquote> Die Lösung hat das Fediverse seit 2010. Und das ist kein manipulierbarer Algorithmus, der "populären" Content nach vorne spült. Die eigentliche Lösung besteht statt dessen aus zwei Teilen. Zum einen ein Zähler für ungelesene Mitteilungen und andere unbemerkte Ereignisse. Wenn man den aufklappt, kann man diese Mitteilungen und Ereignisse jeweils gezielt aufrufen. Tausendmal besser, als wie auf Mastodon nur eine Doomscroll-Timeline zu haben, und wo man nicht mehr schafft hinzuscrollen, davon wird man nie erfahren. Zum anderen, um das Ganze effizienter zu gestalten, immer eine Anzeige des ganzen Thread auf einmal. Damit kann alles, was in dem Thread neu passiert ist, auf einen Schlag gelesen und als gelesen markiert werden. Und ich meine des ganzen Thread mit allen Verzweigungen. Tausendmal besser, als wie auf Mastodon alles immer nur stückchenweise zu bekommen, hier mal ein Post, da mal ein Post und immer schön ohne Zusammenhang. Denn damit wären endlich auch auf Mastodon vernünftige Diskussionen möglich. Aus Mastodon-Sicht ist das utopische Science-Fiction. Im Fediverse im Großen und Ganzen ist beides Realität seit Juli 2010, seit Mistpark gestartet wurde, das heute Friendica heißt, die älteste noch existierende Serveranwendung des Fediverse. Und nicht nur Friendica hat das. Nur weil Mastodon es nicht hat, heißt es nicht, daß das ganze Fediverse es nicht hat und es erst noch neu entwickelt werden muß. Das Fediverse ist nicht nur Mastodon und auch nicht Mastodon mit ein paar Extras drangeklebt. "Das Fediverse" muß nicht verbessert werden. Es ist nur Mastodon, das so ganz allmählich mal zum Rest des Fediverse aufschließen sollte. Denn auch wenn die Mastodon-Entwickler gebetsmühlenartig anderslautende Propaganda verbreiten: Mastodon ist nicht die Krone der Fediverse-Schöpfung und auch nicht der Fediverse-Goldstandard. CC: @<a href="https://freiburg.social/@bikolinux" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Kleiner Radler - resigniert</a> @<a href="https://akk.fedcast.ch/users/hiker" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hiker</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NichtNurMastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NichtNurMastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.hacktheplanet.be/@neo" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Michael Smith (Neo)</a> Convenience. Just about everyone in the Fediverse is on a phone nowadays with the exception of some Friendica and Hubzilla veterans. And the easiest way of sharing e.g. social media content on a phone is by taking a screenshot and plastering it into an otherwise empty toot in their Mastodon app. Way easier and more convenient than copy-pasting the text itself plus a link to the original into the toot. Way easier and more convenient even than only copy-pasting the link. And a great deal easier and more convenient than re-writing the whole text and the link, especially since Bluetooth keyboards for phones are a thing of the past, as are apparently hardware input devices other than touch screens in general. I guess 99% of all phone users don't even know they can copy-paste on a phone, and many have never heard of copy-paste in their lives. Even those who do know that they can copy-paste find marking text to copy on a tiny touch screen too fidgety. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://social.vivaldi.net/@ajsadauskas" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AJ Sadauskas</a> <blockquote>I mean, the Fediverse already has Lemmy, KBin, and MBin. So there's already an ecosystem of pre-built communities out there.</blockquote> /kbin is dead. Has been since last year. The last instances that haven't moved to Mbin are withering away. However, in the "Lemmy clone" category, there's also PieFed, and Sublinks is still in development. Also, the Facebook alternative <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> ("Facebook alternative" not as in "Facebook clone", but as in "better than Facebook") has had <a href="https://dir.friendica.social/group" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">groups</a> since its launch in, 2010, five and a half years before Mastodon. <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> has had groups since 2012 when it still was a Friendica fork named Red. <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/(streams)" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> (2021) and <a href="https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a> (2024) have groups, too. All four are part of the same software family, created by the same developer. And interacting with their groups from Mastodon is somewhat smoother than interacting with a Lemmy community. On Friendica, a group is simply another user account, but with different settings: In "Mastodon speak", it automatically boosts any DM sent to it to all its followers. In reality, it's a little more complicated because, unlike Mastodon, Friendica has a concept of threaded conversations. (No, seriously, Mastodon doesn't have it. If you think Mastodon has it, use Friendica for a year or two as your only daily driver, and then think again.) Likewise, on Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte, it's another <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Channels_(Hubzilla_%26_(streams))" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">channel</a> with similar settings. CC: @<a href="https://sauropods.win/@futurebird" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">myrmepropagandist</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.social/@jasperb" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jasper Bienvenido</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.cc/@sebastian" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">sebastian büttrich</a> @<a href="https://pnw.zone/@Asbestos" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Asbestos</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseGroups" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseGroups</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Groups" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Groups</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=PieFed" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">PieFed</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sublinks" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sublinks</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@jorgecandeias" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jorge Candeias</a> Bad idea. (<a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> user here.) Hashtags are not only for discoverability (and critically so on Mastodon). They're also the preferred way of triggering the automatic generation of individual reader-side content warnings. Content warnings that are automatically generated for each user individually based on keyword lists have a long tradition in the Fediverse. Friendica has had them long before Mastodon even existed, much less before Mastodon hijacked the summary field for content warnings. Hubzilla has had them since its own inception which was before Mastodon, too. (streams) has them, Forte has them. On all four, automated reader-side content warnings are an integral part of their culture. And users of all four (those who are not recent Mastodon converts at least, i.e. those who entered the Fediverse by joining Friendica in the early 2010s) insist in automated reader-side content warnings being vastly better than Mastodon's poster-side content warnings that are forced upon everyone all the same. Oh, and by the way, Mastodon has this feature, too. It has only introduced it in October, 2022, and since the re-definition of Mastodon's culture in mid-2022 pre-dates it, it is not part of Mastodon's culture. But Mastodon has this feature. However, in order for these content warnings to be generated, there needs to be a trigger. The safest way is by hashtags: If you post content that not everyone may want to see, add corresponding hashtags, enough to cover as many people as possible. If you don't want to see certain content right away, add the corresponding hashtags as keywords to NSFW (Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams), Forte) or a CW-generating filter (Mastodon). In fact, hashtags can also be used to completely filter out content that you don't want to see at all. And they can be used to trigger such filters. This should work everywhere in the Fediverse. I myself post stuff that some people don't want to see all the time. Hence, I need a whole lot of hashtags. Let me explain the "hashtag wall" at the bottom of this comment to you. <ul><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> This comment is over 500 characters long. Many Mastodon users don't want to see any content that exceeds 500 characters. They can filter either or both of these hashtags and at least get rid of my content with over 500 characters. Why two hashtags? Because I can't know beforehand which one of them people will filter. And because I can't know beforehand which of one of them people will search for or follow.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> The same as above, but making clear that it's supposed to stand in for a content warning ("CW: long (over 8,300 characters)"). Also, filtering these instead of the above has less of a chance of false positives than the above. Why two hashtags? Because I can't know beforehand which one of them people will filter. And because I can't know beforehand which of one of them people will search for or follow.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> This comment contains Fediverse meta content. Some people don't want to read anything about the Fediverse, not even as by-catch or boosted to them by someone whom they follow or even only on their federated timeline. They can filter either or both of these. Why two hashtags? Because I can't know beforehand which one of them people will filter. And because I can't know beforehand which of one of them people will search for or follow.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> The same as above, but making clear that it's supposed to stand in for a content warning ("CW: Fediverse meta" or, in this case, "CW: Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta"). Why two hashtags? Because I can't know beforehand which one of them people will filter. And because I can't know beforehand which of one of them people will search for or follow.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> This comment is about the Fediverse. If you don't like it, you can filter it out. Otherwise, click it or tap it to find more content on the topic. Also, the hashtag helps people looking for content about the Fediverse find my comment.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> This comment touches Mastodon as a topic. If you don't like it, you can filter it out. Otherwise, click it or tap it to find more content on the topic. Also, the hashtag helps people looking for content about Mastodon find my comment.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> This comment touches Friendica as a topic. If you don't like it, you can filter it out. Otherwise, click it or tap it to find more content on the topic, especially if you don't know what the hell <a href="https://friendi.ca" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> is, but you're curious. Also, the hashtag helps people looking for content about Friendica find my comment.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> This comment touches Hubzilla as a topic. If you don't like it, you can filter it out. Otherwise, click it or tap it to find more content on the topic, especially if you don't know what the hell <a href="https://hubzilla.org" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> is, but you're curious. Also, the hashtag helps people looking for content about Hubzilla find my comment.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> This comment touches (streams) as a topic. If you don't like it, you can filter it out. Otherwise, click it or tap it to find more content on the topic, especially if you don't know what the hell <a href="https://codeberg.org/streams/streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">the streams repository</a> is, but you're curious. Also, the hashtag helps people looking for content about (streams) find my comment. Why two hashtags if they're the same on Mastodon? Because they are not the same on Friendica, Hubzilla (again, that's where I am), (streams) itself and Forte. If I have to choose between catering to the technologies and cultures of Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte and catering to Mastodon's, I will always choose the former.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a> This comment touches Forte as a topic. If you don't like it, you can filter it out. Otherwise, click it or tap it to find more content on the topic, especially if you don't know what the hell <a href="https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a> is, but you're curious. Also, the hashtag helps people looking for content about Forte find my comment.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonCulture" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonCulture</a> This comment touches Mastodon culture as a topic. If you don't like it, you can filter it out. Otherwise, click it or tap it to find more content on the topic, including critical views upon how Mastodon users try to force Mastodon's 2022 culture upon the users of Fediverse server applications that are very different from Mastodon, and that have had their own culture for much longer. Also, the hashtag helps people looking for content about Mastodon culture find my comment.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hashtag</a>, #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hashtags" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hashtags</a> This comment touches hashtags as a topic. If you don't like it, you can filter it out. Otherwise, click it or tap it to find more content on the topic. Also, the hashtag helps people looking for content about hashtags and their implications find my comment. Why two hashtags? Because I can't know beforehand which one of them people will filter. And because I can't know beforehand which of one of them people will search for or follow.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=HashtagMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">HashtagMeta</a> This comment contains hashtag meta content. Some people don't want to read anything about it, not even as by-catch or boosted to them by someone whom they follow or even only on their federated timeline. They can filter either it.</li><li>#<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWHashtagMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWHashtagMeta</a> The same as above, but making clear that it's supposed to stand in for a content warning ("CW: hashtag meta").</li></ul> By the way: Hashtags for triggering filters are even more important on Hubzilla in comments when Mastodon users may see them. That's because Hubzilla cannot add Mastodon-style content warnings to comments (= everything that replies to something else; here on Hubzilla, it's very different from a post that isn't a reply). What's a content warning on Mastodon is still (and justifiedly so) a summary on Hubzilla. But from a traditional blogging point of view (Hubzilla can very much be used for full-fledged long-form blogging with all bells and whistles), a summary for a comment doesn't make sense. Thus, the comment editors have no summary field on Hubzilla. Thus, I can't add Mastodon-style CWs to comments here on Hubzilla. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MastodonCulture" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MastodonCulture</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hashtag</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hashtags" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hashtags</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=HashtagMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">HashtagMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWHashtagMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWHashtagMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@iFixit" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">iFixit</a> <blockquote>and it doesn't look like you can attach documents to posts</blockquote> You can't on Mastodon. I could, both here on <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> and on <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/(streams)" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> where I post my images. But I wouldn't have to. Vanilla Mastodon has a character limit of 500. Hubzilla has a character "limit" that's so staggeringly high that nobody knows how high it is because it doesn't matter. (streams), from the same creator and the same software family as Hubzilla, has a character "limit" of over 24,000,000 which is not an arbitrary design decision but simply the size of the database field. By the way: Both are in the Fediverse, and both are federated with Mastodon, so Mastodon's "all media must have accurate and sufficiently detailed descriptions" rule applies there as well unless you don't care if thousands upon thousands of Mastodon users block you for not supplying image and media descriptions. In theory, I could publish a video of ten minutes, and in the same post, I could add a full, timestamped description that takes several hours to read. Verbatim transcript of all spoken words. Detailed description of the visuals where "detailed" means "as detailed as Mastodon loves its alt-texts" as in "800 characters of alt-text or more for a close-up of a single flower in front of a blurry background" detailed. Detailed description of all camera movements and cuts. Description of non-spoken-word noises. All timestamped, probably with over a hundred timestamps for the whole description of ten minutes of video. Now I'm wondering if that could be helpful or actually required, or if it's overkill and actually a hindrance. CC: @<a href="https://connectified.com/@masukomi" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">masukomi</a> @<a href="https://mastodon.scot/@gunchleoc" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">GunChleoc</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptions</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWImageDescriptionMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWImageDescriptionMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MediaDescription" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MediaDescription</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=MediaDescriptions" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">MediaDescriptions</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.online/@joho" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Joaquim Homrighausen</a> @<a href="https://cyberplace.social/@GossiTheDog" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Kevin Beaumont</a> To be fair, full data portability via ActivityPub has only been available in a stable release of anything for two weeks. That was when @<a class="" href="https://fediversity.site/channel/mikedev" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mike Macgirvin 🖥️</a>'s <a href="https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a>, created in mid-August of 2024 as a fork of his own <a href="https://codeberg.org/streams/streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">streams repository</a> and the latest member of a family of software that started in 2010 with Friendica, had its very first official stable release. And, in fact, Forte just uses ActivityPub to do something that (streams) and its predecessors all the way to the Red Matrix from 2012 (known as Hubzilla since 2015) have been doing using the Nomad protocol (formerly known as Zot). It's called <a href="https://joinfediverse.wiki/Nomadic_identity" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">nomadic identity</a>. This is technology that's over a dozen years old on software that was built around this technology from the get-go, only that it was recently ported to ActivityPub. Now, nomadic identity via ActivityPub was @<a href="https://mitra.social/users/silverpill" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">silverpill</a>'s idea. He wanted to make his <a href="https://codeberg.org/silverpill/mitra" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mitra</a> nomadic. He started working in 2023. The first conversion of existing non-nomadic server software to nomadic still isn't fully done, much less officially rolled out as a stable release. If Mastodon actually wanted to implement nomadic identity, they would first have to wait until Mitra has a first stable nomadic release. Then they would have to wait until nomadic identity on Mitra (and between Mitra and Forte) has become stable and reliable under daily non-lab conditions. (Support for nomadic identity via ActivityPub on (streams) worked nicely under lab conditions. When it was rolled out to the release branch, and existing instances upgraded to it, it blew up in everyone's faces, and it took months for things to stabilise again.) Then they would have to look at how silverpill has done it and how Mike has done it. Then they would have to swallow their pride and decide to adopt technology that they can't present as their own original invention because it clearly isn't. And they would have to swallow their pride again and decide against making it incompatible with Mitra, Forte and (streams) just to make these three look broken and inferior to Mastodon. And only then they could actually start coding. Now look at how long silverpill has been working on rebuilding Mitra into something nomadic. This takes a whole lot of modifications because the concept of identity itself has to be thrown overboard and redefined because your account will no longer be your identity and vice versa. Don't expect them to be done in a few months. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mitra" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mitra</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=RedMatrix" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">RedMatrix</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=DataPortability" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">DataPortability</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=NomadicIdentity" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">NomadicIdentity</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@benpate" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Ben Pate 🤘🏻</a> Not everyone will want to offer their music on Bandwagon for money. Some may want to give it away for free for various reasons (non-commercial license, German hobbyist artists not wanting to hassle with the German tax system and GEMA etc.), and Funkwhale may not be a viable option for them. At the same time, they may not want to or even be able to pay the same prices for anything beyond basic functionality as musicians or bands who intend to actually make money with their music. Some features should remain free for music that's offered for free. For example, it shouldn't be lossless downloads that a musician or a band has to pay for as a feature, but charging money for lossless downloads. Having everyone pay for e.g. offering FLAC downloads favours commercial artists, and the anti-capitalist parts of the Fediverse will criticise you for that. Alternatively, you could make the license choosable from a pull-down list per song or per album or for an entire account. And when a commercial license (or any license that isn't decidedly non-commercial) is selected, certain features are greyed-out or removed unless they're paid for. At the same time, when a non-commercial license is selected, the UI elements for charging money are greyed out or removed. Also, if you ever plan to open-source and decentralise Bandwagon, you can't expect all instances to charge the same for the same. Even if you hard-code in what must be paid for, the moment Bandwagon is open-source, there will be at least one fork where certain or all payments are not hard-coded anymore. Not only will some musicians or bands prefer that fork for their own instances, but it's even likely that public instances of such a fork will be launched. At that point, your pricing calculation will become moot. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Bandwagon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Bandwagon</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://nerdculture.de/@Schdadia" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Schdadia :progresspride:</a> Auf jeden Fall noch vorm Kauf drauf achten, daß das Ding nicht mit einem Supervisor-Paßwort verdongelt ist. Damit würdest du nämlich nicht in die UEFI-Konfiguration kommen, um die Bootreihenfolge zu ändern, und normal sind die Dinger so eingestellt, daß als erstes vom eingebauten Festspeicher gebootet wird. ThinkPads der T-Klasse sind sehr oft Leasingrückläufer von größeren Kunden, und da ist gerne ein Supervisor-Paßwort gesetzt und nie zurückgesetzt worden. Wenn die Vorbesitzer eh nur das vorinstallierte Windows genutzt haben, dann stört sie das nicht nur nicht, sondern meistens merken sie das überhaupt nicht. Und meines Wissens braucht man zum Zurücksetzen des Supervisor-Paßworts einen Lötkolben. #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLangerPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLangerPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=ThinkPad" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">ThinkPad</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://birdbutt.com/@vulgalour" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">vulgalour</a> First of all, "image description" and "alt-text" don't mean the same thing. Alt-text is what's added directly to the image. It's what screen readers used by blind or visually-impaired people read out loud as they can't "read out loud" an image. It's what people see instead of the image if the image doesn't show for them (text-based client, too slow Internet connection, whatever). Alt-text should never convey more information than the image which it is a replacement for. An image description that goes into the post itself is not alt-text. I don't see any rule or part of the "Fediquette" or "Mastodon culture" that speaks against adding that additional information to a reply. Whether it works or not depends on whether your customers accept it or not. I guess that 99% of your aspiring customers in the Fediverse will be on Mastodon, only see your start post and not be bothered to check the replies. So my suggestion is to leave room in the original post for tellling your customers that prices can be found in a reply to that post. But seeing as this will happen to you a lot, it may be worth looking for someplace that offers you more than 500 characters: <ul><li>a Mastodon instance with a raised character limit</li><li>Pleroma (5,000 characters by default, configurable by the admin)</li><li>Akkoma (5,000 characters by default, configurable by the admin)</li><li>Misskey (3,000 characters, hard-coded; just steer clear of misskey.io)</li><li>the various forks of Misskey and forks of their forks like Iceshrimp or Sharkey (thousands of characters by default, configurable by the admin)</li></ul> If you need a five-digit character count, the best you can do requires basically re-learning the Fediverse, mastering a significantly steeper learning curve and very likely abandoning dedicated apps. Here we're talking about Mike Macgirvin's creations from Friendica (200,000 characters) to Hubzilla (probably even higher) to (streams) and Forte (over 24,000,000 characters). #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Fediverse" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Fediverse</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mastodon" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mastodon</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Pleroma" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Pleroma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Akkoma" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Akkoma</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Misskey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Misskey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forkeys" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forkeys</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Iceshrimp" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Iceshrimp</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Sharkey" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Sharkey</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimit" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CharacterLimit</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CharacterLimits" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CharacterLimits</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltText" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltText</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=AltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">AltTextMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWAltTextMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWAltTextMeta</a>

Jupiter Rowland@<a href="https://mastodon.social/@jasperb" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jasper Bienvenido</a> The only talk about a Discord "alternative" in the Fediverse comes from people who want 1:1 clones of all kinds of commercial stuff with an absolutely identical UX, but free and open-source and decentralised with ActivityPub. Otherwise, for just simply chatting, including multi-user chatrooms, there are Matrix (iOS/Android: Element) and XMPP (iOS: Monal IM, Android: Conversations). They are not part of the Fediverse, but they are free, open-source and decentralised. And they are alternatives to iMessage, Telegram and WhatsApp as well. For discussion groups/forums, and very much in the Fediverse as in connected Mastodon, there are <ul><li>Lemmy (Reddit clone)</li><li>Mbin (like Reddit, but better)</li><li>PieFed (like Reddit, but better)</li><li>Friendica (like Facebook, but better and more powerful)</li><li>Hubzilla (like Facebook, but much better and much, much more powerful)</li><li>(streams) (like Facebook, but much better and more powerful)</li><li>Forte (like Facebook, but much better and more powerful)</li></ul> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Long" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Long</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=LongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">LongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLong" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLong</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWLongPost" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWLongPost</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=FediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">FediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=CWFediverseMeta" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">CWFediverseMeta</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Discord" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Discord</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=DiscordAlternative" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">DiscordAlternative</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=XMPP" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">XMPP</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Jabber" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Jabber</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Matrix" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Matrix</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Groups" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Groups</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Lemmy" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Lemmy</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Mbin" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Mbin</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=PieFed" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">PieFed</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Friendica" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Friendica</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Hubzilla" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Hubzilla</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Streams" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Streams</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=%28streams%29" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">(streams)</a> #<a class="" href="https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Forte" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">Forte</a>

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